Episode 5
How to Build a Global BJJ Retreat Business | Luke Fraser
How one man built a global BJJ retreat business from a mining shift — and why the funnel that works is simpler than you think.
Luke Fraser was working week-on, week-off in Australian mining when his mum — a travel agent — got sick of him talking about starting a business and put down a deposit on 15 hotel rooms without telling him.
Five years later, BJJ Escapes has run 13 sold-out retreats with coaches like Josh Hinger, Heath Pedigo, Owen Livesey, Mason Fowler, JFlo, Jacob Driscoll, and more — across Australia and Thailand.
In this episode, Nick Cownie sits down with Luke to break down exactly how BJJ Escapes works: the pricing model, the marketing funnel, the pre-selling timeline, and the operational decisions that turned a side hustle into his full-time business.
This is the first episode released under the new DOJO CEO Podcast brand — a rebrand from the Grappling Map Podcast — reflecting the broader martial arts business focus the show now delivers.
🔥 IN THIS EPISODE
- The mum-forced-me-into-it origin story every entrepreneur can relate to
- Why capping the mat at 3m² per pair became his biggest competitive edge
- The three-package pricing model — training only, twin share, private room
- Why the private room package outsells the cheaper options every time
- How Luke sells events 9-12 months out (already selling March 2027)
- Why he does zero sales calls and runs the entire funnel on Instagram + website
- The expensive customs mistake that changed how he ships event gear
- Why cleanliness protocols in Thailand became a business-saving system
- How stepping back from operations made the last event his best ever
- The dream coach list and what comes next for BJJ Escapes
🕒 TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro — welcome to the new DOJO CEO Podcast
01:28 The mum-forced-me-into-it origin story
03:14 First event, 20-25 people, learning as he goes
04:57 Jiu-jitsu as an instant social network anywhere in the world
07:13 13 events in 5 years
08:02 The 3m² per pair rule that shapes the whole business
11:30 Scratch your own itch — the business principle behind the model
14:16 The biggest mistakes over 5 years of running retreats
17:20 Cleanliness, staph, and superbugs in Southeast Asia
20:47 Travel insurance and Middle East flight disruptions
21:44 The favourite event and why stepping back changed everything
24:12 The stacked coach lineup
26:01 The purple belt sweet spot — "high enough to respect, low enough not to target"
31:04 The marketing funnel — Instagram content + inbound email
33:26 Zero sales calls, sold off the page
34:51 Selling events 9-12 months out
36:08 The three-package pricing model
38:29 Why private rooms outsell everything else
42:04 The backpacker Covid horror story
43:18 The dream coach list — JFlo, Heath Pedigo, Gordon Ryan
45:03 Where to find Luke
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👇 CONNECT WITH LUKE FRASER
Luke Fraser is the founder of BJJ Escapes — the premium jiu-jitsu retreat business running events across Australia and Thailand with world-class coaches. A BJJ purple belt with 8 years on the mats, Luke transitioned from full-time mining work to running BJJ Escapes as his full-time business.
📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/bjj.escapes
🌐 Website: https://bjjescapes.com.au
⚔️ ABOUT THE SHOW
Most martial artists open a school. The best operators become DOJOCEOs™.
Hosted by Nick Cownie — founder of Enroll 365™, Dojo Toolbox CRM™, The Dojo Map™, and DOJOCEO™ Mastermind — each episode goes "behind the belt" to break down the business, battles, and breakthroughs behind successful martial arts schools.
👉 FOLLOW NICK
📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/dojoceo
🌐 Website: https://dojoceo.com
#bjjretreat #bjjtravel #bjjbusiness #martialartsbusiness #martialartsschool #brazilianjiujitsu #dojoceo
Transcript
Hey, it's Nick Counter here with the Dojo CEO podcast.
Speaker A:You might have seen this previously as the Grappling Map podcast.
Speaker A:We've just undergone some rebranding, so this is the first episode with Dojo CEO as our branding.
Speaker A:Pretty exciting.
Speaker A:My guest today is the one and only Luke Fraser.
Speaker A:I've only just met Luke face to face for the first time, but I've been following him on Instagram specifically for quite a while, and his business, BJJ escapes, that we're going to dig into.
Speaker A:Pretty exciting.
Speaker A:So the whole point of the Dojo CEO podcast is to go behind the belts in martial arts.
Speaker A:We all love talking Jiu jitsu and we will talk jiu jitsu, but to go behind the belt and look at, you know, the business, the battles and the breakthroughs of entrepreneurs in the martial arts industry.
Speaker A:So welcome today to Mr. Luke Fraser.
Speaker A:Hey, Luke, how you going to.
Speaker B:I'm doing well, mate.
Speaker B:Thanks for.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker B:Thanks for the intro and thanks for following along via the socials.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a great avenue for my business and that's how we've had the limited success.
Speaker B:Success that we've had.
Speaker B:So, yeah, thank you very much.
Speaker A:So tell me a little bit about how BJJ escapes got started.
Speaker A:I remember reading a post you put up about this on Instagram, where from memory it sounded like your mum kind of forced your hand a little.
Speaker A:That was an awesome story.
Speaker A:Give it, give us the background.
Speaker A:How'd that happen?
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B: So this was in: Speaker B:I was into Jiu Jitsu at the time, obviously, and I've been on surf camps and known about yoga retreats and all of that sort of thing.
Speaker B:And I'd even been on a few jiu Jitsu seminars and camps in the past, so I thought that I could create something similar and add my own flair to it.
Speaker B:And I've been speaking to my mum about it, who my mum is a travel agent and has her own travel company and has for, like, pretty much my whole lifetime.
Speaker B:So she was a great point of contact for that.
Speaker B:So I was bouncing a lot of ideas off her.
Speaker B:And then, yeah, we just kind of kept talking about it, talking about it, but never had the confidence to pull the trigger.
Speaker B:And she could kind of see that.
Speaker B:Um, so at a certain point in time she just said, look, well, we've been talking about it.
Speaker B:For so long I had it all mapped out and everything.
Speaker B:I just never pulled the trigger.
Speaker B:And she went and did it.
Speaker B:She put down deposit for the local resort where we were living at the time.
Speaker B:She put down her deposit for 15 rooms and I was away at work.
Speaker B:I was working in mining full time at the time and yeah, she told me that she's gone and done that and I didn't believe her.
Speaker B:But then she sent through the confirmations and I fucking shit myself.
Speaker B:Obviously it's a fair bit of money and then, yeah, I just had to get to work on it.
Speaker B:And yeah, that's kind of the catalyst for then what's happened for four or five years after that.
Speaker B:So that was the first event we were lucky.
Speaker B:We had.
Speaker B:I had a friend of mine, Paul Pasha Stolia was the coach and we had 20 to 25 individuals on that event and then we've just been going full steam ahead ever since.
Speaker A:That's pretty awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah, sometimes it takes kicking the pants from mum, get stuff up and running, eh?
Speaker B:Yeah, she's my biggest fan, so.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:So she should be.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:I don't know Paul personally, but I've trained with him a bunch because I used to.
Speaker A:When I first started training Jiu Jitsu, I. I trained with an instructor who was under south side in.
Speaker A:In the Gold coast.
Speaker A:And then I moved to the Gold coast and I trained with Vicente Cavalcante for a while, a couple of years.
Speaker A:Blue belt from vc.
Speaker A:Is that where you trained as well?
Speaker A:Where.
Speaker A:Where have you been training?
Speaker B:Yeah, so I'm from the Gold coast.
Speaker B:Like I grew up there my whole life, but my Jiu jitsu started later in life when I was in my 30s.
Speaker B:So at that time I was living up in North Queensland because I was working in mining.
Speaker B:So I started up in Airlie beach at a local MMA gym there.
Speaker B:And also whilst I was away at work in Moranbah in coal mining, there was a local gym there who a good friend of mine used to run Daddy Borg.
Speaker B:So we used to set up mats in the local pcyc.
Speaker B:Once the basketball finished, we chuck them down, we'd roll for a bit and then we'd pack them up, put them away under the stairs.
Speaker B:So that's kind of where I started.
Speaker B:And Yeah, I was 30 at the time, so, yeah, 38 now.
Speaker B:I've been training for about eight years, so.
Speaker B:But also because I travel a lot, I'd always go to the Gold Coast, I'd pop in a lot of gyms and that's kind of.
Speaker B:That's one aspect of Jiu Jitsu that I love, that you can kind of just pop in and you have something in common with these people, even though you mightn't even know them.
Speaker B:But you can develop some pretty close and quick connections through a shared passion like Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker A:Yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker A:It's been, I've, I've trained all over the world now, like every country that I've gone to.
Speaker A:Anytime I travel internationally, I always, I used to try and take a gi, but man, that's, that's pretty hard to, to take sometimes.
Speaker A:So I've always got some, you know, some shorts on a rashi and I've just trained everywhere and it's exactly like you described.
Speaker A:It's just like an instant social network.
Speaker A:And you know, everyone's welcoming and friendly and not everyone, there's some dickheads, but in general it's, it's just really friendly and you get invited to sleep at people's houses and go out for dinner and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Just unreal.
Speaker A:And I've not known any other community that I've seen in, in life in general that's really like that, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, it's, it is very unique.
Speaker B:I haven't experienced it in any other, I suppose, sport or art that I've practiced.
Speaker B:I used to play a lot of rugby league when I was younger as well, and I really love that.
Speaker B:And I think that's where part of the Jiu Jitsu kind of filled that void for me as well, because I stopped playing after a while.
Speaker B:Like in my mid-20s.
Speaker B:I was never good enough to be pro, but I had a lot of injuries and it was just like, well, this isn't really going anywhere so I better stop.
Speaker B:But I was like, I had a void of one, it was connection.
Speaker B:Two, it was kind of like just pushing yourself and that sort of thing.
Speaker B:So I think that's where Jiu Jitsu kind of filled a lot of those voids for me from 30 onwards.
Speaker B:And friendship wise, the best friends that I have now are all through Jiu Jitsu that I've met, through training, even right now.
Speaker B:Like fast forward to my current situation.
Speaker B:I live in New Zealand and moving here, you know, starting fresh, like only a couple years ago, you'd struggle.
Speaker B:As a general adult, you'd pretty much struggle, or at least I would have if I didn't have Jiu Jitsu to meet new friends and, and all of that sort of stuff.
Speaker B:But because I have that thing through Jiu Jitsu, I've Trained here at the MMA gym and like the best friends that I have now are through that.
Speaker B:So I've adjusted well to the lifestyle over here because of, you know, Jiu jitsu.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's crazy just how helpful it is off the mats with those kind of things.
Speaker A:Yeah, with, with your escapes.
Speaker A:How, how many have you run now?
Speaker A:So you said it's been going five years?
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I should have counted.
Speaker B:I did think to count this before we sort of kicked off, but I'm pretty sure my 13, we just ran our 13th event.
Speaker B: yeah, we've been going since: Speaker B:So yeah, five years.
Speaker B:And initially we started out was just two a year, but then we ramped it up to three, ran a couple back to backs and that sort of stuff.
Speaker B:So yeah, it's around 12 to 13 events we've run and we've just come off my last event which was in Thailand in March or we're still in.
Speaker B:Oh, we're in April now.
Speaker B:Yeah, we just come off our last event in March.
Speaker B:We had Heath Pedigo, he was coach for us over there at Ang Tower MMA and we had a week long retreat there.
Speaker B:And our next event we've got JFLO who's coming to Australia and that's in July.
Speaker A:Very nice.
Speaker A:How many people do you tend to get per event?
Speaker B:So it's all dependent on the, the venue size basically.
Speaker B:But I like to operate with like a square meter ish per pair.
Speaker B:Um, one thing I kind of don't really like and I'd had experience in the past is say seminars and that for example, where they packed the mat so full.
Speaker B:Obviously I understand the economics behind it, but like, I really enjoy the rolling and dynamic side of Jiu jitsu.
Speaker B:Whereas if you have so many people on the mat, you can't really get the best experience out of that.
Speaker B:You're always bumping into people and all that sort of thing.
Speaker B:So our group sizes range between 30 to say 50 people.
Speaker B:But it's all based off the dimensions of the training room.
Speaker B:And it's basically if we can fit x amount of people within that ratio, then we go with that.
Speaker B:But say Thailand just gone, we had 50 people on it.
Speaker A:That's an awesome approach to take.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That's like a people first, experience first approach.
Speaker A:Instead of how much money can I make from.
Speaker A:Obviously it's a business, you want to make money.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But jam in the room.
Speaker A:I've been to seminars like that too where it's a mosh Pit right, standing room only.
Speaker A:You're like, hey, you can't roll.
Speaker A:There's just people to your left, right on top, behind.
Speaker A:Just absolutely crazy.
Speaker A:And in my experience, I decided in the room on the spot, the instructor might be great or big name or whatever, but I'm not coming back to this particular organization because it's not a great experience.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said for that.
Speaker A:So is.
Speaker A:Was that an early on decision or is that something that, you know, kind of evolved over time?
Speaker B:Well, when we first started, I didn't have the issue of saying, oh, this room's going to be.
Speaker B:So we've sold so many tickets, the room's going to be full.
Speaker B:Our first event, we had around 20 to 25 people on, so we didn't come across that issue.
Speaker B:But I needed to make sure I had enough mats, and I kind of came up with the rule around 3 meters squared per pair from there, so.
Speaker B:But basically, if I'm being honest, it was selfish reasons that I wanted to not pack the mat so much, because as I said before, that's the part of jiu jitsu that I really enjoy, is the rolling and just the workout you get from that aspect.
Speaker B:So if I'm bumping into people, I'm not enjoying it, and then I'm sure that other people aren't enjoying it.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's something in that I was conscious of from early on, but as I said, it was kind of like selfish reasons.
Speaker B:But it just so happens that it kind of goes hand in hand with other people's experience and they get to enjoy it as much as what I think they would if.
Speaker B:If I do as well.
Speaker A:Yep, there's.
Speaker A:There's a. I'm always kind of listening between the lines when I do these interviews.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And there's a lot to unpack in terms of just simple, clear business strategy right there in what you said.
Speaker A:And this is you.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You'll know this straight away.
Speaker A:This isn't for you right now.
Speaker A:This is for everyone paying attention.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which is if you listen behind what Luke's saying, right.
Speaker A:You scratch your own itch.
Speaker A:You could have packed the mats full of people and probably made more money.
Speaker A:But you want to have a good time when you're at your own events.
Speaker A:You like rolling, you like the dynamic part.
Speaker A:You've built it in such a way that you actually get to enjoy the events that you're running.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And it seems almost stupidly simple to even point that out.
Speaker A:I talk to so Many business owners, especially people running schools and they often one of the big problems is that they feel like they need to do everything the way other people want it instead of the way that makes sense to you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I had a business coach years ago who explained this to me so simply with two overlapping circles like a basic Venn diagram.
Speaker A:He's like, this one here, this is you, this is them.
Speaker A:And then in the middle it's us.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And it's what they want and what you want.
Speaker A:Some of those things are going to be exactly the same that's in the US section in the middle and you definitely want to include those things.
Speaker A:But then outside of that, there might be one or two things on the them side that you include.
Speaker A:Yeah, okay, we'll do that for them because that's a big want for people.
Speaker A:But it's also important to make sure that some of the things that really kind of light you up, like making sure there's 3 meters squared per person or per, you know, per group is maintained at all times.
Speaker A:It just makes perfect sense.
Speaker A:And a lot of the time people don't give themselves permission to think in that way.
Speaker A:I think it's awesome that you know, you have and that you continue to.
Speaker B:So yeah, thank you.
Speaker B:I suppose the.
Speaker B:When the business first started as well, right.
Speaker B:I wanted to create something cool, but I also wanted to scratch my own itch with being able to travel and train, train with some high level people and have a bit of a holiday.
Speaker B:So like the easiest way in my mind, which thinking about now is fucking retarded because it's a lot of work that I never considered at the time, I'm like, I'll put this event together and it gives me then permission to go have this fun and go experience this training and meet these new people.
Speaker B:So yeah, it started probably for selfish reasons in a way.
Speaker B:Like I wanted to have those things because I was working like most people.
Speaker B:I was working a full time job and I was in mining.
Speaker B:So I was working week on, week off and it was really monotonous.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're going through a lot of things.
Speaker B:I had a. I have a young family, three kids and we were renovating a house and I just wanted a bit of a break from these things.
Speaker B:So crazily enough, I decided to start this side business and then it's kind of become my full time thing and my life has changed dramatically outside of that as well.
Speaker B:But yeah, it started for kind of those reasons and it's just evolved from there.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker A:When you think about so five years, about 13ish retreats, right?
Speaker A:What, what were the biggest mistakes that you reckon you've made?
Speaker A:That if you had your time over you go, I would definitely do this differently.
Speaker B:I've been actually really fortunate, if I'm being honest, that there hasn't been anything that's happened that I haven't been able to come back from in regards to, let's just say an instance happening at an event or like a confrontation or stuff like that.
Speaker B:So I've been really fortunate.
Speaker B:Like a pretty easy one, for example, which I never thought of at the time.
Speaker B:But so all the rash guard, like so we supply rash guards to all the individuals, all the participants.
Speaker B:So on these events, and we were running a back to back one at this time, so we had 50 on one and 30 on camp two.
Speaker B:So that's 80 rash guards.
Speaker B:So rather than me packing it in my car, in my check in, I decided to send it to Thailand.
Speaker B:And I'm like, yep, okay, all good.
Speaker B:But I didn't think about at the time, which is a bit of an oversight of my half, but I'd never done it before.
Speaker B:Is that custom seized that, that order and then they decided to, to go through it and then they charged me duty on the import.
Speaker B:So and at the time they went off the retail rate of like a rash garden, I'm pretty sure they chose just a random website and the rash guard was around 80 to 100.
Speaker B:So then they times that by the amount of rashes I had and I was looking at a huge import rate, a huge import fee at the time.
Speaker B:So kind of a lot of backwards and forwards.
Speaker B:And I just told them like, this is a promotional piece, we're not selling these in country.
Speaker B:And that sort of thing.
Speaker B:I ended up having to pay a fine, but it was much smaller than the initial amount.
Speaker B:So that's kind of like one thing, whereas a bit of an oversight and kind of then look to operate outside of those moving forward.
Speaker B:So ways around that is getting the rashes made in country rather than importing them and stuff like that.
Speaker B:So other ones it's probably like because we're dealing with so many individuals, you know, you've got individual personalities and jiu jitsu has a really good way of working weeding a lot of like certain types of personalities out.
Speaker B:But there's always going to be instances where confrontation happens and you have to have conversations with people and say, hey, like you either gotta pull your head in or you're off.
Speaker B:That sort of stuff.
Speaker B:We've had people get arrested and that sort of stuff out.
Speaker B:You know, there's people who go into these countries and they're there to train hard and have a good time.
Speaker B:Sometimes the time they have is too good of a time and then they kick on.
Speaker B:So there's been people that have been locked up and, and instances around that.
Speaker B:But you know, there's.
Speaker B:This is what happens when you have individuals that kind of put themselves in situations where they're in a foreign country and yeah.
Speaker B:Just probably don't operate with the same level of concern or thought that they would when they're back home.
Speaker A:Perhaps that's a pretty common thing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Especially Aussies coming overseas getting themselves into trouble.
Speaker A:What, what's the, just off the top of your head, I'll put you on the spot here.
Speaker A:Like what's the craziest thing that's ever happened on one of your retreats?
Speaker B:We've had people who have had injuries at the event or at the sort of social activities at the event.
Speaker B:They've had to be airlifted out and things taken the hospital and that sort of stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So just things like that.
Speaker B:But realistically, like we've been pretty fortunate I think, so far.
Speaker B:Touch wood.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's fascinating, you know, doing a combat sport in another country when you're not a national there and you're not, you know, you've got to rely on your travel insurance if you're smart enough to get it.
Speaker A:I'm sure you would be with your mum as a travel agent.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But I learned that lesson the hard way.
Speaker A:I tried to move to Vietnam.
Speaker A:I went, went and lived in Vietnam for 31 months with my wife and 2 kids.
Speaker A:My daughter was 6 and my son was 3 and I was in Ho Chi Minh City.
Speaker A:I was training at the UFC gym which had just opened up.
Speaker A:They had this crazy, you know, six week deal for like worked out to be about $10 Australian for six weeks.
Speaker A:Was cool, brand new facilities, awesome international, expert instructors.
Speaker A:And I ended up getting an antibiotic resistant staph infection in my leg and needed surgery.
Speaker A:And I won't go into the full story because you know we're talking about you, but I ended up having surgery without anesthetic to fix a staph infection that was going to kill me on my leg.
Speaker A:And it was like started as a little red dot after a class, you know.
Speaker A:And it's like here in Australia that would have been handled pretty pretty straightforward, but over there it was just a totally different standard of care.
Speaker A:It's very, very interesting.
Speaker B:Yes, staph infections are something that like I've experienced myself and it's unfortunately it's inherent with the sport that we participate in.
Speaker B:But say in Thailand, for example, a lot of places where you train their cleanliness standards aren't up to the level or potentially what they should be.
Speaker B:And like I'm super aware of that now.
Speaker B:And this is only after iteration upon iteration.
Speaker B:But so me and my team, we now before each session we clean the mats ourselves, we spray the mats, we mop them, we disinfect them and then after each session we have the in house team do the same thing.
Speaker B:But like the, at least I know that I've taken every precaution I can to make sure that the environment that we're training in is clean and as safe as possible for our guests.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But yeah, that's something that only after a few iterations and people having come up with issues before that, I'm like, yeah, we have a pretty high standard around that sort of thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's fantastic.
Speaker A:You hear too right.
Speaker A:It's, it's having lived that firsthand, that's something that would be, I know, like important to me and I know that and I'd love to come to a retreat at some point.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I know that there are loads of people who have had staff don't want it again, don't want to get it in the first place.
Speaker A:And that the cleanliness standard of international venues, especially in these Southeast Asian kind of countries, which are beautiful and amazing and I love it there.
Speaker A:But you know, there's, they've got superbugs and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's just a different, a different ball game altogether.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker B:And even like you mentioned travel insurance and like we just look at our most recent event.
Speaker B:So you know, you've got the things that are going on right now in the Middle east around flight disruptions and then reroutes.
Speaker B:So we had about four people who were coming from the UK to, to the event and then they had to be either rerouted or their flights got canceled and that sort of stuff.
Speaker B:So like insurance is such a huge thing and it's definitely something that we can't, it's not, we don't make it mandatory.
Speaker B:Like we can't make, make people get it, but we highly suggest that everybody gets it and recommend and we have like certain insurers that we say, from my experience that we've operated with or our participants have operated with and they, they've had claims and they seem to be a lot more forthcoming than others.
Speaker B:So there are some that are better than others, but yeah, like it's definitely something we highly recommend everyone get.
Speaker A:Yeah, cool.
Speaker A:It just makes perfect sense, right?
Speaker A:When you look back over all of the retreats that you run, do you have a favorite?
Speaker A:Like which.
Speaker A:Which was just like this one was just the best so far.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So like, I suppose my.
Speaker B:Our first one I really enjoyed because it was just something that kind of came out of nowhere.
Speaker B:So that, that's definitely always going to have a special place for me.
Speaker B:Like and then the relationships that I've made with the participants and the coach and everyone like that.
Speaker B:But this most recent event that we ran in Thailand was probably outside of our first event, my most favorite, and there's a few reasons, the main one being is in this last event, just gone.
Speaker B:I took a real backward step from the daily operation of the event.
Speaker B:Now I have, we've been kind of going for a little while and a bit more established.
Speaker B:I have a team now in place that I put in charge to kind of run the event.
Speaker B:I do everything in the lead up and the sales and all the management and logistics and that and always have.
Speaker B:And then historically I've run the event as well.
Speaker B:But now I'm at a point where I have a team that can kind of do that for me.
Speaker B:So I got to take a back step this time and allow the team to do that and I really got to enjoy just the training side of things.
Speaker B:Obviously I'm there interacting with everyone as well, but anything needed like on the day to day was handled by the team and that kind of helped and allowed me to really enjoy the event for the event itself.
Speaker B:And outside of those things, the coach, Heath Pedigo, who I've been a huge fan of ever since I seen the Daisy fresh series on YouTube years ago.
Speaker B:But he exceeded my expectations as a coach and as an individual.
Speaker B:He was super personable.
Speaker B:He kind of just made a real big effort to make sure that everyone felt like they had his attention.
Speaker B:He went, he broke down things, super simple for people who needed it and then it could be as advanced for the more technical people as well.
Speaker B:So he had a real good skill set.
Speaker B:He's an actual quite a gifted coach and based off that experience, I've now booked him for our next Thailand event, which is March next year.
Speaker B:So it was just such good feedback from everyone and from my own experience that yeah, we've rebooked him and that's March next year.
Speaker A:Very Cool.
Speaker A:Who, if, if you remember everyone, that'd be amazing.
Speaker A:Who have you had as guest coaches on the event so far?
Speaker B:Yeah, I could rattle off the name.
Speaker B:So we've had like a lot of locals in Australia.
Speaker B:So my event started initially in Australia so it was, it was a national basically event.
Speaker B:So Pasha Stoy was our first coach.
Speaker B:We had Uros Culich and Daniel Almeida.
Speaker B:On our second event we had vc.
Speaker B:On our fourth event we had Josh Hinger was the coach.
Speaker B:For our first Thailand event I ran an event in Kingscliff which had multiple coaches.
Speaker B:Pasha Urosh again, Will Diaz, Anton Minanko.
Speaker B:We then ran another event back in Thailand without Yuri Samoas.
Speaker B:He ran a, he ran an event for us there.
Speaker B:We came back to King Cliff, ran another event with four more coaches.
Speaker B:We had Josh Saunders, Adele Fornarino, Jaco Driscoll and there's one more, I can't think of that name.
Speaker B:And then back to Thailand we had Owen Lives, he run it back to back for us.
Speaker B:We had Mason Fowler running back to back for us.
Speaker B:We've had Heath Pedigo running an event for us.
Speaker B:So yeah, they're the coaches to date.
Speaker A:It's pretty stacked list, man.
Speaker A:It's, it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker B:You think the, the more I train with all these high level people, the better I get, but unfortunately it's not the case.
Speaker B:But I'm enjoying my time so far.
Speaker A:Doesn't, doesn't rub off.
Speaker A:Just highlights the gaps.
Speaker A:Yeah, unfortunately not.
Speaker A:That's how I feel every class.
Speaker A:What, what belt are you at the moment?
Speaker B:I'm a purple belt.
Speaker B:I've been purple belt for a few years now and it's not, I'm not in a rush to, to go through for my next belt.
Speaker B:It'll happen when it happens.
Speaker B:But I pretty like I've had the conversation.
Speaker B:I've been graded all my belts through the one coach and he's now in Brazil.
Speaker B:So when the time comes that I head over there and if he thinks I'm ready, he'll give it to me or he'll put me through it and if he doesn't, he won't.
Speaker B:But yeah, as I said, I'm not really chasing.
Speaker B:I'm happy where I'm at.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm not chasing to get promoted anytime soon.
Speaker B:Just happy coasting along purple.
Speaker B:You're at like a high enough level, people respect you but not so high that people like look out for him.
Speaker B:So I'm a happy medium.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:I'm, I'm a purple belt.
Speaker A:In bjj too, at, at this point in time.
Speaker A:So I'm sitting there going, yep, I understand everything you're saying.
Speaker A:I find it's interesting, right?
Speaker A:For me, at least it was the, you know, when I was a white belt, like, I really wanted to get my blue belt.
Speaker A:And then when I was a blue belt, I was a blue belt for like five years.
Speaker A:I moved around a lot, got my blue belt from VC and then moved a couple of times.
Speaker A:And when you move, you started a new school.
Speaker A:You could have been a blue belt for two years, but it's like, it's like you just got it the day before, right?
Speaker A:You reset because the coach doesn't know anything about you.
Speaker A:So that.
Speaker A:Well, this is, this is a new student as far as we're concerned.
Speaker A:He just happens to have a blue belt on.
Speaker A:And so then you got another couple of years of kind of, unless you're just, you know, an absolute killer and smashing everyone in comps and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:And that, that's not me.
Speaker A:I'm not huge.
Speaker A:I don't mind competition, but I'm not in comps all the time.
Speaker A:And so I was a blue belt for maybe five years.
Speaker A:And it got to the point where I was like, yeah, I think I really, I just really want to get my purple belt.
Speaker A:And now what?
Speaker A:I got three.
Speaker A:Three stripes, I think.
Speaker A:And I just don't.
Speaker A:Not, not don't care.
Speaker A:That's not the right terminology, but I'm like, I'm not chasing it either.
Speaker A:You know, when it happens, it happens.
Speaker A:And I find that that's kind of the point from about purple belt on, where I hear a lot of people say that.
Speaker A:They're like, yeah, I'm just here.
Speaker A:It's the lifestyle now.
Speaker A:I show up, I train, I love it, I roll.
Speaker A:And eventually you get more bits of tape on your belt and then your belt changes color, you know, and it's really, it's really interesting.
Speaker A:I guess you do, you do occasionally meet those people who are just, just belt hungry.
Speaker A:But I find by about purple belt, they've kind of been weeded out by and large.
Speaker B:Yeah, I suppose I've heard like, like great quotes off social media and that saying, like, if you're a purple belt, you know, you're pretty much a black belt.
Speaker B:You just got.
Speaker B:Now just got to do the time.
Speaker B:So, yeah, like, obviously if you're a purple belt, generally you're pretty technically proficient.
Speaker B:It's just the time that you've got to go through to develop the skill set further and then there's a whole other skill set that some coaches and schools emphasize and others don't, but the ability to teach.
Speaker B:Like, I'm a terrible teacher.
Speaker B:If I was like, I can show the moves that I'm good at, but if I was to run a general class, I would suck.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, okay.
Speaker B:You know, some schools place a big emphasis on that when you kind of get to the senior upper belts that you should have that skill set.
Speaker B:And I understand reasons for that.
Speaker B:But yeah, I just, I'm just coasting along.
Speaker B:I'm enjoying my training.
Speaker B:I also have dealt with some pretty shitty injuries in the past few years.
Speaker B:So it's kind of like I'm not rushing to get anywhere.
Speaker B:I just, I'm just happy to be on the mats and trying to maintain a decent level of fitness and proficiency.
Speaker A:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker A:I think one of the other factors for me is I'm also, I'm a third degree black belt in Japanese jiu jitsu and I do teach, you know, so it's like.
Speaker A:And I got a black belt in karate too from when I was like 20.
Speaker A:So I don't have that, that hungry drive that a lot of people have of like, I've got to get a black belt.
Speaker A:I'm like, I've already got two.
Speaker A:I know what it's like, it's amazing.
Speaker A:It's really great.
Speaker A:Go for your black belt.
Speaker A:But the day after you get your black belt, you wake up and you go to training and you still get smashed.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And you might get smashed by a technical purple belt.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it's, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's no magic to it.
Speaker B:I still get smashed by bluebells these days.
Speaker B:Like you got up and coming.
Speaker B:Blue belts who have been training for longer than I have, but they've gone through the kids grading system and like they're super good.
Speaker B:So yeah, it's like there's always someone better.
Speaker B:But just speaking on that as well, I suppose it just popped into my head.
Speaker B:Like I, when I first started I was just like, everyone wanted to get tabs and belts and all of that.
Speaker B:And then once I got to a certain point, then I wanted to compete and I wanted to win like nationals and all this in states.
Speaker B:And I did at that time and that, that was like a white belt and blue belt.
Speaker B:But now I've kind of transitioned from that and my new thing is the business.
Speaker B:So it's kind of the business is feeling, I suppose the aspirational focus for me.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:And it's just, I'm just fortunate that it goes hand in hand with Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I feel the same way.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's awesome to be able to run a business in the industry.
Speaker A:You know, that you love, that you're passionate about.
Speaker A:It's fantastic.
Speaker A:Tell me a little bit about, you know, your marketing and sales approach.
Speaker A:Like, what's your funnel look like?
Speaker A:How do people first find you?
Speaker A:How do you capture their interest?
Speaker A:How do you warm them up?
Speaker A:You said that you still do all the sales yourself, right?
Speaker A:What's that kind of start to finish process look like?
Speaker B:Look, it's not as innate and as orchestrated as it probably should be, but realistically, the.
Speaker B:Our biggest channel is Instagram for via social media.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I just basically try and pump out as much content from our events or related to our events in the past or up and coming to show people the things we're doing, the things we're getting up to and the fun we're having, the skills that we're developing in the hope that people seeing that go, that looks pretty fun.
Speaker B:I wouldn't mind doing that whether it's the next event or an event in the future.
Speaker B:Like, I understand that, you know, people have got commitments.
Speaker B:I've got three kids.
Speaker B:You know, you can't just pick up and leave and go on a trip whenever you want.
Speaker B:So I really try to forecast out events and have like a decent period of time where people can like, book time off work, organize care for things at home and that sort of stuff, and then kind of like look forward to a trip that's say nine months down the track.
Speaker B: Like, we've already got March: Speaker B:Like, we've sold a bunch of tickets for that already.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I just take real pride in kind of trying to forecast that because I understand people like me have got commitments.
Speaker B:But just back to the whole funnel and marketing look.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah, I post on social media, hopefully show people something that they want to get up to and think, oh, that would be cool.
Speaker B:And then, yeah, just kind of go down that avenue.
Speaker A:So when, you know, when someone reaches out and says they're interested or they come and visit the website and stuff like that, do you.
Speaker A:Is it all, like, is it.
Speaker A:Is it sold off the page on the website?
Speaker A:Do you send them information?
Speaker A:Do you do, you know, phone calls, zoom calls, or any or all of the above?
Speaker B:Yeah, no.
Speaker B:No sales calls.
Speaker B:It's all.
Speaker B:All the information that is relevant to the event is on display via the website.
Speaker B:If people have more questions after they've read all that information then by all means, like I'll happily answer anything.
Speaker B:And that all comes through our website, like through an inquiry.
Speaker B:I don't do sales calls or anything like that.
Speaker B:I've just never had to.
Speaker B:I suppose I'm pretty fortunate at this stage that I suppose we communicate the information well enough that people understand what they're getting when they, when they book.
Speaker B:So yeah, the emails like we have, we have like an email list as well and like we have a pretty good return rate of like repeat customers as well.
Speaker B:So I think that's a compliment to the business and the service we provide.
Speaker B:But yeah, like I receive phone calls all the time from Australia so because it's all on the website so they just call the number and I'm happy to have a chat with anyone.
Speaker B:But yeah, we try and make sure all the information is on the website for everyone to view and make a decision from there.
Speaker A:Yeah, great.
Speaker A:Pardon me.
Speaker A: , you're already selling into: Speaker A: And we're in: Speaker A:So that's awesome.
Speaker A:What if you look, you know, a couple of years down the track, do you have like future plans or are you just happy to, you know, roll it as things go?
Speaker A:Where's it, where are you heading?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker B:At one stage I was thinking more events.
Speaker B:Obviously, you know, it's, this is my full time business.
Speaker B:I have, you know, a lifestyle that this needs to fund and then obviously I want to do, I want my business to grow as well.
Speaker B:Like it's, it's just something you, you know, it's a positive to see things grow and get bigger and bigger.
Speaker B:So I was always thinking more events and more locations but right now I've kind of made a decision that I'm for this year we're just going to run the ones that we've got.
Speaker B:So we've just had March and now the next one we've got is with JFLO in July and then next year look to have the two spaced out and potentially look to open one up for in the us but it also depends on the whole political situation over there because unfortunately, you know, I could want to run an event here, there and everywhere but there's a lot of external factors that have big impacts on the viability of an event like that.
Speaker B:So right now we'll just run with two for this year and then yeah, just trying to build them, do it like provide a better service, provide better value for the Individuals who are coming and yeah, go from there.
Speaker A:So I've had a, you know, a good look at your website.
Speaker A:I know the answer to these questions already but I'm going to ask it for anyone who hasn't checked that out yet and is, is interested when someone signs up to come and they pay the fee, what's included, what do they get?
Speaker A:Do they need to pay for accommodation separately and food and all that kind of stuff?
Speaker B:Yeah, so there's, there's several different ticket options and they're based on.
Speaker B:There's like three packages.
Speaker B:One's training only, one's twin share and one's private room.
Speaker B:So if you get a training only ticket, which is the lower priced option, you get access to the training facility.
Speaker B:Let's say for example with jflo, which is our next event in July, so we're hiring out a conference room at Pepper's Resort on the, on just south of the Gold coast border.
Speaker B:So we've hired out that resort, we've got the conference room, we've got all the mats set up and everything.
Speaker B:So basically just the training with them.
Speaker B:We're going to do a lot of social activities as well.
Speaker B:So you come along and join all of that.
Speaker B:But the training only package is basically just the training and a lot of the inclusions that come with that.
Speaker B:If you go twin share or private room, that's where the accommodation comes into it.
Speaker B:So twin share, you'd be sharing a room with someone else who is part of the camp, same gender, so male or female.
Speaker B:And yes, the accommodation is included there and other sorts of details like whether we're going to go like to the dice bar and stuff like that.
Speaker B:You get access to that and then the next ticket option is private room.
Speaker B:So it's the same inclusions but you get the room to yourself, daily breakfast and all those sorts of things.
Speaker A:Yeah, cool.
Speaker A:So you've got different packages for, you know, different budgets obviously.
Speaker A:Yeah, Experience people want to have.
Speaker B:Yeah, and people also, some people live locally so it doesn't make sense for them to buy a private room ticket when they live just five minutes up the road.
Speaker B:So yeah, yeah, we try to cater for all options and then like we'll take that exact example and put that on Thailand.
Speaker B:So a private room package would include like the boat trips and all the group activities that we do, whereas the training only, you know, you could stay at a much cheaper like a backpackers or something like that if you have a bit more of a budget.
Speaker B:So we try to facilitate the ability for everyone to jump on and kind of find the right ticket for them.
Speaker A:Is in your experience is one of those options more popular than the others?
Speaker A:Because I, you know, I understand if you got 50 spots and you sell out, then everything's taken.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But when it first starts selling, is it like all of the, you know, training room training only options sell out and then people start booking accommodation or is it the other way around?
Speaker B:Yeah, the pro, it's the other way around actually.
Speaker B:The private rooms seem to be the ones that are most favorite and there's a few reasons.
Speaker B:One which I understand we're providing a service, people want it done for them.
Speaker B:So we book all the accommodation, we book everything and just send you the info.
Speaker B:So people much prefer that option.
Speaker B:Also I understand like a twin share option.
Speaker B:If you're coming by yourself, it can be potentially daunting to share a room with another stranger.
Speaker B:Although you get to know them very well over the week.
Speaker B:But at least at first it's like I'm going to share the room with this person.
Speaker B:Do they snore?
Speaker B:You know, do they talk in their sleep?
Speaker B:All those sorts of things.
Speaker B:So I understand that's a bit more of a.
Speaker B:If you're coming with a friend, that's probably a better option for some people.
Speaker B:But we have that option for everyone.
Speaker B:Like it's available and you know, we've actually through that people getting to meet other people from all over the world, America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand.
Speaker B:Like you, it's a great way to form friendships as well.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But yeah, the private room package is the one, the most favorite one and it has all the inclusions and it's all done for you.
Speaker B:So that seems to have been the most popular.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:I found that I've never run jiu jitsu retreats specifically but I've done, you know, I've been business coaching for like 15, 20 years and my wife and I used to run before we started this specific business here where we working with martial arts school owners.
Speaker A:We would, we were working with any kind of business and we had a range of different clients, a lot of them in the US and twice a year we would go and run an international event.
Speaker A:I'd teach some kind of business related content.
Speaker A:You know, it could be how to build a sales webinar or something like that for a couple of days and then we do something fun and adventurous and because of my interest that would almost always end up being jiu jitsu training or something combat sports related.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So we went, you know, we did, we did Jiu Jitsu in Thailand if we probably should have done Muay Thai, but I prefer Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker A:So there you go.
Speaker A:You know, we went and we did Sheepdog Response course with Tim Kennedy's group in Dallas, Texas.
Speaker A:That was really fun.
Speaker A:So those kind of things.
Speaker A:And I, I also found, it's just very interesting.
Speaker A:I was curious to hear your answer there.
Speaker A:I found that the option for people to.
Speaker A:To stay by themselves was always significantly more popular than the next level down, which again, twin share.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then down from that, we didn't have a training only kind of option because everyone, you know, we were all going internationally and it wasn't that we were hiring out a big venue.
Speaker A:We, we'd go and attend other people's events and things.
Speaker A:So we'd often, you know, rent out a mansion on Airbnb and then everyone would get their own room or they'd have to partner up and stuff.
Speaker A:And I've been on the receiving end or the attendee end as well at different events over the years and had that exact experience where you do a twin share.
Speaker A:It's with someone you don't know.
Speaker A:They're absolutely lovely.
Speaker A:It's time to go to bed.
Speaker A:You switch off the lights and they snore like a chainsaw.
Speaker A:You're like, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So it just makes perfect sense that that's the.
Speaker A:The most, the most popular.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I remember I went to nationals in Melbourne.
Speaker B:I can't remember what year it was.
Speaker B: I think it was: Speaker B:And I, I was on a budget and I stayed at a backpackers and it was the biggest mistake of my life because everyone in the room snored.
Speaker B:And then this was just not long after Covid.
Speaker B: So it's probably: Speaker B:And then at that time, because it was just all a hot topic, then one guy in the room had Covid.
Speaker B:So then they're calling all of us and I'm at the comp, they receiving a call, hey, you've been like, the person in the room had Covid.
Speaker B:You need to isolate and all this sort of shit.
Speaker B:So never again will I say to backpackers, I'm a bit more older now and have, I suppose, the means available to stay somewhere private.
Speaker B:But it was a good experience at the time.
Speaker B:And when I was younger, that definitely worked for me.
Speaker B:But not anymore.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Here's an interesting one.
Speaker A:It's so.
Speaker A:Had some awesome guests so far, right?
Speaker A:Guest teachers.
Speaker A:Who's on your.
Speaker A:Who's on your dream list?
Speaker A:Who would you just.
Speaker A:What are like I don't know.
Speaker A:The top three, the top five.
Speaker A:If you could just have absolutely anyone come and teach at a BJJ escapes event or retreat, who would it be?
Speaker B:Look, I'm really excited for JFLO1 because just the stuff that he does is so dynamic and he is just so good at it.
Speaker B:Visually, I'm hoping that that rubs off on me.
Speaker B:So I'm really excited for that.
Speaker B:Heath Pedigo.
Speaker B:I'm, like, always keen to work with him because of the experience we had.
Speaker B:Also, there's a big difference as well.
Speaker B:Like a lot of our guest coaches in the past, they're athletes and coaches.
Speaker B:So it's pretty interesting to have an experience with Heath where he obviously, you know, when he was younger, was an athlete or competed from time to time, but he's mainly known as a coach.
Speaker B:So, like, that was a real different take that.
Speaker B:I never really foreseen that he'd be able to offer something different, but.
Speaker B:So that was a really cool experience.
Speaker B:And just his skill set around coaching is.
Speaker B:Is really well developed.
Speaker B:I suppose if you look at the big names in the sport, there's Gordon Ryan and all of those guys.
Speaker B:I'd work with all of them.
Speaker B:I'm happy to work with anyone, you know, as long as we can make it work.
Speaker B:It has to make sense for them and make sense for.
Speaker B:For the business.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I'm excited for jflow.
Speaker B:I'm excited for March next year with Heath and just keep on doing some cool stuff with some cool people.
Speaker A:Very awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah, the jflow event.
Speaker A:Pardon me.
Speaker A:Sounds awesome.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's kind of blown up on social media because, you know, his.
Speaker A:His content and his techniques and his breakdowns and stuff are just so good.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker A:All right, mate.
Speaker A:Anything else that you want to talk about or bring up or make sure that we get out on the table?
Speaker B:No, that's it for me.
Speaker B:Just thanks for your time.
Speaker B:I appreciate the.
Speaker B:Appreciate the time with you.
Speaker B:And if anyone's keen to jump on an event in the the future, look us up and I hope to see you on the mat sometime in the future.
Speaker A:Beautiful.
Speaker A:And so if people want to find you on Instagram, what's your.
Speaker A:What's your handle?
Speaker B:BJJ Escapes.
Speaker A:BJJ Dot Escapes.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:That logo there.
Speaker A:Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker B:But, yeah, so social media, Instagram's our most active, I suppose, page.
Speaker B:And then, yeah, the website is bjjscapes.com.
Speaker A:So we got bjj.acapes on Instagram and bjjescapes.comau if you want to check out the website, which is where all the info is and that's where you can sign up for a retreat, which I will be doing.
Speaker A:Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to.
Speaker A:I won't be able to go to the jflow1 which is gonna gonna cut deep because I'd love to go to that.
Speaker A: But possibly: Speaker B:Opportunities in the future.
Speaker B:There's like, as I said, like when I come across a coach who I like really enjoy working with, I'll always work with them.
Speaker B:So whether it's this one or another one in the future there'll be more opportunities coming up.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's phenomenal.
Speaker A:And as I was saying right at the start, we've just rebranded.
Speaker A:So we are no longer at Grappling Map.
Speaker A:Now It's @Dojo CEO.
Speaker A:You can find that on Instagram and YouTube.
Speaker A:Those are the main two channels that we operate on.
Speaker A:If you want to connect with me, you know, professionally for whatever reason on LinkedIn, you can find that there.
Speaker A:We've also rebranded the Grappling Map website to the Dojo Map.
Speaker A:Now we're going to be listing more than just grappling based martial arts.
Speaker A:That's by popular demand.
Speaker A:Funnily enough, if you're looking for tools to run your dojo or your martial arts school, whether it's BJJ or any other style, you can check out dojo toolbox CRM.com and our newest and probably most exciting release in years is a system we've just created which is an AI powered chatbot system that is multi channel, connects to Instagram and Facebook, Messenger, SMS, WhatsApp, email and a web chat widget on your website that sounds human.
Speaker A:And books people in for trial classes 247 and that's called enrollment roll 365AI.
Speaker A:So that's everything that I have that I've been building out, working on.
Speaker A:Thanks for your time Luke.
Speaker A:Really appreciate having you here.
Speaker A:That was an awesome conversation and yeah man, I look forward to seeing what you do with the business and getting along to at least one and probably plenty more than one retreats over the next few years.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker B:Thank you so much man, I really appreciate your time.
