Episode 1
Why Most Kids BJJ Programs Fail | Ellee Beckman
Why do most BJJ gyms lose kids?
The kids program that's quietly killing your retention — and the simple shifts that turn it into your biggest growth engine.
Most martial arts schools treat their kids program like a side hustle.
The result? Burned-out coaches, frustrated parents, and kids who quit by 13.
In this episode, Nick Cownie sits down with Ellee Beckman — founder of The Arte of Coaching, former early childhood educator of 13+ years, and head kids coach at Nova Art Brazilian Jiu Jitsu — to expose the gap that exists in almost every kids martial arts program in the world.
Ellee combined a decade in early childhood education with five years of BJJ to build a coaching business that's now teaching coaches across the globe how to actually understand kids — not just teach them technique.
This conversation is the blueprint every academy owner with kids classes needs to hear.
🔥 IN THIS EPISODE
- Why "technique first" is the wrong approach for under-12s
- How teaching through play multiplies engagement and retention
- The communication mistakes 99% of coaches make with kids
- Why early specialisation destroys long-term students
- The pressure trap that's burning out coaches, kids, and parents
- How Ellee built The Arte of Coaching from a single WhatsApp post
- The content shift that took her from "trying to go viral" to real authority
- Why authenticity beats every algorithm trick
- How BJJ training makes her a sharper business owner
- Her vision for a standardised kids coaching curriculum
🕒 TIMESTAMPS
00:00 — Intro
01:26 — Ellee's background: 13 years in early childhood education
04:01 — How a Muay Thai voucher (she never used) led to BJJ
07:45 — The "angry octopus" first BJJ class
08:40 — The #1 mistake schools make teaching kids
10:14 — What teacher training brings to martial arts
14:44 — The truth about early specialisation
18:36 — Why 70% of kids drop sport by 13
20:30 — Building The Arte of Coaching from scratch
26:30 — The biggest content mistake (and the fix)
28:46 — Why authenticity beats every viral strategy
32:50 — What she'd do differently starting over
39:39 — A standardised kids coaching curriculum
45:25 — How BJJ makes her a better business owner
49:43 — The one person she'd love to roll with
54:04 — Ellee's #1 message for martial arts entrepreneurs
59:35 — Where to find Ellee
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🤖 Enroll 365™ — https://enroll365.ai
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Find me on Instagram @dojoceo and comment one of the keywords below on any reel to get sent the resource:
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👇 CONNECT WITH ELLEE BECKMAN
Ellee Beckman is the founder of The Arte of Coaching — a global platform helping martial arts coaches understand how kids actually learn. A former early childhood and primary school teacher with 13+ years of classroom experience, Ellee combines developmental psychology with game-based BJJ instruction at Nova Art Brazilian Jiu Jitsu on the Sunshine Coast.
📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/thearteofcoaching
▶️ YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thearteofcoaching
🛒 Store: https://stan.store/thearteofcoaching
⚔️ ABOUT THE SHOW
Most martial artists open a school.
The best operators become DOJOCEOs™.
Hosted by Nick Cownie — founder of Enroll 365™, Dojo Toolbox CRM™, The Dojo Map™, and DOJOCEO™ Mastermind — each episode goes "behind the belt" to break down the business, battles, and breakthroughs behind successful martial arts schools.
👉 FOLLOW NICK
📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/dojoceo
Transcript
All right.
Speaker A:Hello and welcome to the Grappling Map podcast.
Speaker A:Our guest today is Ellie Beckman from the Art of Coaching.
Speaker A:Very excited to have you here, Ellie.
Speaker A:How you going?
Speaker B:Yeah, really excited to be here, Nick.
Speaker B:I am very much looking forward to this chat.
Speaker A:So am I. I've been looking forward to this for a while, actually, because I know you are quite an expert when it comes to coaching and training kids, and kids, like children in general is something that I'm super passionate about.
Speaker A:I have two kids of my own.
Speaker A:They've both trained.
Speaker A:I've been training for 30 plus years myself.
Speaker A:And I've been particularly looking forward to this conversation because I find it's a very interesting kind of.
Speaker A:Well, you can go more than just kids, obviously, but I find it's a very interesting area when it comes to teaching martial arts.
Speaker A:And there's a lot of weird and wonderful theories out there that people have.
Speaker A:And I myself actually used to be a pediatric specialist in traditional Chinese medicine.
Speaker A:So I've always loved kids.
Speaker A:And I'm really excited to talk to you about what it is that you do with kids in martial arts.
Speaker A:So give us a quick kind of intro to who you are, what you do, what you train, where you are.
Speaker A:Who is Ellie Beckman?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So I am currently located on the Sunshine coast in Queensland in Australia.
Speaker B:I have been training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for about five years, but before this, I was an early childhood and primary school teacher for around 10 to 12 years, although it is coming up to sort of 13, 14 now.
Speaker B:I taught in schools.
Speaker B:I taught a lot in early childhood.
Speaker B:I was a big kindy teacher kind of thing.
Speaker B: ney in Brazilian jiu jitsu in: Speaker B:And then I met my partner through Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:We met together on the mats, which is pretty cool.
Speaker B:And his dream was always to open a gym.
Speaker B:And I was like, yeah, okay, I'll come along for the ride.
Speaker B:Why not?
Speaker B:I like Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:And we built our gym, which is Nova Art, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu on the Sunshine Coast.
Speaker B:And he was like, can you take the kids classes?
Speaker B:And I was like, yeah, of course.
Speaker B:I'm happy to take the kids classes.
Speaker B:And it became like a natural progression for me.
Speaker B:And something that I started to notice in our local area or in competitions when I would go to different places is like a gap in the.
Speaker B:In understanding kids.
Speaker B:So we really focus on adults.
Speaker B:On social media, you always see amazing adults doing, you know, their highlight reels or their.
Speaker B:Their techniques or whatever it is that they're doing, but there wasn't really anything for kids.
Speaker B:And I was like, there's got to be other coaches out there that are looking at things and going, I don't know how to actually teach kids.
Speaker B:So after about 12 months, I decided to start the art of coaching.
Speaker B:And I was pretty nervous, actually.
Speaker B:The first thing that I ever did to try and, like, promote myself was I put it in.
Speaker B:In a group chat with other, like, jiu jitsu coaches.
Speaker B:I think, Nick, you're part of that group as well.
Speaker B:And I was like, look, I'm gonna try and do this thing.
Speaker B:Just have a little look.
Speaker B:And it really resonated with people.
Speaker B:And now all of a sudden, I have this beautiful platform.
Speaker B:I nearly have 4,000 followers, which is lovely.
Speaker B:Like, it's not about numbers, but for me, they're valuable people who send me feedback or want to talk about kids, and I can see how valuable.
Speaker B:Understanding kids, not just technique, is everything.
Speaker B:And that's what I do.
Speaker B:That's where I am at.
Speaker B:I still teach kids classes.
Speaker B:I still do what I do throughout the day, and then I do the art of coaching on the side.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:So what's outside of bjj?
Speaker A:Do you have any other martial arts experience or background?
Speaker A:Or was it literally you decided to go check out BJJ and then you met your partner and this trajectory just kind of found you?
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm the most uncoordinated person on the planet.
Speaker B:I'm not sporty.
Speaker B:I never claim to be good at jujitsu at all.
Speaker B:So when people are like, because preface, I'm a blue belt, and that's why.
Speaker A:You teach the kids classes.
Speaker B:Classes.
Speaker B:And so when people are like, you're just the blue belt.
Speaker B:I'm like, yeah, and I'm not very good either, but that's not what I'm claiming to be good at.
Speaker B:And so I never had any experience with any martial arts.
Speaker B:And so basically, long story short, I got put in a pretty uncomfortable position at a pub one night, and I was like, wow, I really need something that's going to kind of be able to help myself a little bit here because it's pretty uncomfortable, and I'd always been interested.
Speaker B:I actually won a voucher to try a Muay Thai class, and I was so nervous to go to this Muay Thai class.
Speaker B:I didn't even take the voucher.
Speaker B:I never showed up for it.
Speaker B:And then, I don't know, I just was like, you know what?
Speaker B:I'm just gonna do it.
Speaker B:And then I went.
Speaker B:And my whole Life has completely changed based on that one decision to go to a Jiu Jitsu class.
Speaker A:That's incredible.
Speaker A:What, what's your memory of your first experience of Jiu Jitsu like?
Speaker A:Like, you walk in, you get on the mats, you're doing the class, you shrimping up and down the mats, probably like, what the hell is all this about?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:What was, what was your first class like?
Speaker B:Yeah, so I went to a private trial class, the first, like private little thing that I went to with my professor at the time.
Speaker B:And I took two friends with me.
Speaker B:So I went with my friends.
Speaker B:And I actually was broke.
Speaker B:I had no money.
Speaker B:I was a uni student.
Speaker B:I couldn't afford the classes, but my friends had money and they were like, yes, let's sign up, let's do it.
Speaker B:And I felt so pressured and uncomfortable that I signed up on the spot because I didn't want to be left out or say no.
Speaker B:And I remember like learning how to do an arm bar.
Speaker B:And I remember thinking, this is pretty cool.
Speaker B:Like, I can do an arm bar.
Speaker B:Like, I've got it now.
Speaker B:And so that was awesome.
Speaker B:And then it came time for my first real class with everyone and I showed up.
Speaker B:I was out the front of the gym and I got a text message from my friend and she said, I'm not coming.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh my God, she's not going to show up.
Speaker B:And I'm already here at the front.
Speaker B:And I just remember thinking, if, if I don't walk in and do this now, I will never do it.
Speaker B:I'll just walk away and I'll quit.
Speaker B:And I'm notorious for that.
Speaker B:So I was like, no, I'm really going to push myself.
Speaker B:I'm going to do it.
Speaker B:So I walked in.
Speaker B:I remember being absolutely terrified.
Speaker B:I was the only girl in the class and I got partnered with this other white belt who also had no idea what he was doing.
Speaker B:But I thought he knew everything.
Speaker B:So I was asking so many questions and trying to pick his brain.
Speaker B:He ended up being my friend, actually, but he then later on quit.
Speaker B:And I just remember thinking, I have no idea what anyone is saying, what anyone is doing.
Speaker B:Why am I forward rolling?
Speaker B:And why does it hurt my shoulders when I'm doing it?
Speaker B:But after that, you do eventually get used to it.
Speaker B:But yeah, my first class was a lot.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:I remember my first class, my instructor.
Speaker A:So I've done Japanese jiu jitsu for 31 years.
Speaker A:I've got a third degree black belt in Japanese Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker A:I walked into BJJ 10 years ago thinking, I'm gonna absolutely crush this, right?
Speaker A:By that point, I'd been doing jiu jitsu for 20 years.
Speaker A:But it's all stand up and we do blocks and throws and strangles and chokes and all the, all the fun stuff, but all on the feet.
Speaker A:And then I went to a BJJ class and like everyone's experience, I was the mop and they used me to clean the mats, right?
Speaker A:And my instructor asked me, what.
Speaker A:What was that like for you?
Speaker A:Afterwards?
Speaker A:The only way I could explain it, because I actually rolled with him directly, I said, it's like trying to stuff an angry octopus into a backpack.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:That was my explanation of what it felt like when.
Speaker B:Literally feels.
Speaker A:When you think about how most schools teach kids, right?
Speaker A:If you had to kind of summarise what you've seen into a sentence or two of like, this is what they get, really.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And this is where I think there's a big gap and it could be improved.
Speaker A:What are those two things for you?
Speaker B:I think that the best way to be able to put it is that a lot of schools look for technique first and games second, rather than games first.
Speaker B:Learning through play.
Speaker B:I think learning through play is so valuable and sometimes we take our adult experiences and our adult understanding of how to learn and try to apply that to kids and it's not necessarily the most relevant way.
Speaker A:Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Speaker A:What I feel like this is almost an obvious answer that I could just guess, right.
Speaker A:But what is it that you bring from your background, being a teacher, that someone who doesn't have that formal education as a teacher and that experience, that background would be lacking or could really stand to gain by implementing your approach to teaching kids.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, the.
Speaker B:There's a few different things because I do teach through games and that's one aspect of it.
Speaker B:But I think that that's not even the most important part.
Speaker B:The most important thing that I notice that the difference between having like a formal education in teaching or even experience with kids in general is understanding how to communicate with them.
Speaker B:I find that we sometimes don't even know how to talk to a 5 year old.
Speaker B:I find like, I'm actually in the middle of coach, like teaching a new coach how to coach at my gym at the moment and his first day, I don't think he said a single word because he was like, what is going on here?
Speaker B:Like, how do I talk to them?
Speaker B:Just talk to them.
Speaker B:Like people stop trying to like just talk to them.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:And I think just being able to communicate on a level that they understand, that's respectful to them.
Speaker B:You know, getting down to their level, you don't want to be fully standing at like your level and looking down at a four year old and talking to them.
Speaker B:Bring yourself down to their level.
Speaker B:Use eye contact, use words they understand.
Speaker B:I think that's a huge one, is that we assume that they know what connection means or balance means or these words that we take for granted that they don't, you know, necessarily understand.
Speaker B:And it's simple communication based on an understanding of where a child is at developmentally.
Speaker B:So when you understand how their brain is like working and functioning at their particular age or level of development, that makes a huge difference.
Speaker B:Now, I don't expect people to know this because that's something that you learn through a university degree or even through years and years of experience.
Speaker B:So that's something that I would never expect people to know, but that's something that I then share that information at a level that they can then start to understand and integrate that.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A:I think that's amazing.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:A couple of years ago I actually started putting together a kids program based on animal themed games.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I haven't launched this, I haven't done anything with it, but with one of the things that I was really motivated by with my own children and more than just the actual martial arts skills, given that I've got, you know, a health practitioner background, I spent 10 or 15 years working in clinic and I've taught in that space as well.
Speaker A:Plus a large martial.
Speaker A:A very long history of training martial arts.
Speaker A:I've done all kinds of weird and wonderful things in between.
Speaker A:I became very interested in taking the martial arts and including it in a wider framework that teaches kids how to actually live a happy, healthy life.
Speaker A:Life.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Including things like situational awareness, understanding about, you know, I just call it nourishment.
Speaker A:You know, what are you taking in through your eyes, ears and mouth?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What are they?
Speaker A:All the screen time that they spend, what they're listening to, watching tv and also education on food and those kind of things.
Speaker A:And I just find that the actual physical component is so underrated.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There's so many incredible studies that have been done on the effects of exercise on your mood and your psychology and suicide prevention and obesity and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker A:And if we can get kids having fun on the mats instead of, there's nothing wrong with competition, but instead of just focusing on competition, then they really grow and Develop as people.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then the specialization can come later.
Speaker A:And I remember seeing, I am in that same WhatsApp thread that you mentioned.
Speaker A:I think that's kind of where we connected originally.
Speaker A:I remember seeing you talk about the, you know, the over focus on specialization with children when they first start training.
Speaker A:Tell us a little bit about your ideas on specialization, whether it's a good idea, when it should be done.
Speaker A:You know, I'm going to become a competitor and I'm going to really go hard on that.
Speaker A:Or if kids should kind of focus more on the general approach to training.
Speaker A:What are your thoughts?
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love this question.
Speaker B:It's so interesting because I am the first person to put my hand up and say that I have made this mistake myself.
Speaker B:I've mentioned a little bit before when speaking to some amazing people who are far more qualified and experienced than I am in this particular area.
Speaker B:But I opened our gym and we had a very high level athlete coaching at our gym at the time.
Speaker B:And, and I think because of this we were new.
Speaker B:It's kind of like the flavor of the month.
Speaker B:We ended up with quite a few kids who were competitor kids come to our gym because they wanted to improve their jiujitsu, be competition focused and thrive sort of in the competition world.
Speaker B:And first of all, that is a lot of pressure for a coach.
Speaker B:That was a lot of pressure for us.
Speaker B:And so we stepped into that role of early specialization without even knowing what that was.
Speaker B:And the number one thing that I noticed was the pressure that I felt, the pressure that my partner felt, the pressure that the kids felt to do well.
Speaker B:Because if they don't perform well, you know, parents get pretty upset and pretty disappointed.
Speaker B:And there's two minds about this because I understand, you know, you're paying a lot of money for a comp.
Speaker B:You know, your kid does really well in training, you're really hoping that they would perform the same level in competition.
Speaker B:And sometimes that just doesn't happen.
Speaker B:And so I really started to reflect on this and realize that this wasn't good.
Speaker B:Like why was I doing this and why was I allowing myself to feel so much pressure for a 6, 7, 8 year old kid that really should just be having fun.
Speaker B:So we stepped away from that and in doing so and in a lot of other different reasons, a lot of those families left which immediately relieved this insane pressure that we felt on ourselves to make someone good.
Speaker B:And through conversations with people with, you know, Dr. Jerrell Garcia is fantastic to talk to.
Speaker B:I even spoke with Greg Souders about this because I kind of.
Speaker B:I'm in that cla realm.
Speaker B:I've realized how damaging early specialization is because you get kids who are these little kids, and they love Jiu Jitsu, and I think that's important.
Speaker B:You've got to love it to do it.
Speaker B:And they're having fun, but then all of a sudden it's like, okay, you're having fun, but now.
Speaker B:Now you need to also perform.
Speaker B:And then they're going to get that little bit older and a little bit older, and I can just see it.
Speaker B:They burn out, they get tired, they don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker B:And I know you and I are both based in Australia, but a lot of, like, the people that I speak to are also in America.
Speaker B:And in America, 70% of kids drop out of their sports by the age of 13.
Speaker B:Now, there's a number of contributing factors to that, but one of them is that they're just burnt out.
Speaker B:They've spent their whole time trying to do this one sport, and they get to a point where it's like, okay, either they can't take it any further, there's no way for them to take it.
Speaker B:They've lost their interest for it.
Speaker B:They become teenagers.
Speaker B:Lots of different things happen.
Speaker B:And so the damage that I think specialization does on kids far surpasses just letting the kids be kids.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, Nick, I've lost your voice.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker A:There we go.
Speaker A:Are we back?
Speaker A:Tap out the tep, Gremlins.
Speaker A:Can you hear me now?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Gotcha now.
Speaker A:Fantastic.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:There's always something every time.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So I was saying, letting kids be kids is generally the right approach, right?
Speaker A:In almost.
Speaker A:I mean, I can't think of an area of life where that's the wrong approach.
Speaker A:Do you have kids yourself?
Speaker B:No, I don't.
Speaker B:Yeah, I spend all day with kids.
Speaker A:Fair enough.
Speaker B:So then at the end of the day, I'm pretty happy to go home to my dog.
Speaker A:I think that makes perfect sense.
Speaker A:I have two amazing.
Speaker A:I have two amazing kids.
Speaker A:I love them.
Speaker A:But I understand where you're coming from.
Speaker A:So we shift our focus to the actual business for a minute.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:The art of coaching.
Speaker A:This hasn't been up and running for a very long time.
Speaker A:Am I right?
Speaker A:It's been a couple of months.
Speaker A:How long has the journey been so far?
Speaker B:Yeah, so I started the page probably the beginning of the year, but I didn't actually have the courage to start sort of sharing my stuff until about April.
Speaker B:And so it's been.
Speaker B:Yeah, only a few months, but, yeah, the Response that I've gotten has been pretty amazing from people in this particular area.
Speaker A:Oh, congratulations.
Speaker A:It's very cool.
Speaker A:Like, we'll share some links, put them up on the screen later.
Speaker A:But your Instagram's awesome.
Speaker A:Your YouTube.
Speaker A:I was binge watching your YouTube videos just yesterday in preparation for this conversation.
Speaker A:And it's spectacular, right?
Speaker A:It's really, really great stuff.
Speaker A:And if you had to describe your business model in one sentence, like how you have set the business up, how it operates, how would you explain that?
Speaker A:What's your actual business model?
Speaker B:That's a really great question.
Speaker B:I think I'm so early into it that I'm still really trying to navigate and find my feet with that.
Speaker B:I feel like my whole model is just based around being able to coach coaches to make better coaches.
Speaker B:But in relation to an actual business, I feel so immature in this area that I'm still really trying to figure out what that is.
Speaker B:My partner does a lot of the.
Speaker B:He's actually the person that does all the stuff behind the scenes.
Speaker B:I'm the one in front of the camera that sits on the computer and is like watching Alex Hormozy non stop trying to figure out how to run businesses and do these things.
Speaker B:Because we don't have a business background.
Speaker B:We are the least business people ever.
Speaker B:But, you know, if you've got some advice, I'd love to hear it.
Speaker A:I've been a business coach for about 20 years, right.
Speaker A:Which is why I decided to do.
Speaker A:My collar's all folded over, let's fix that.
Speaker A:Gotta look sharp for the camera.
Speaker A:That's why I decided to do this particular podcast and focus, yes, on martial arts, but specifically martial arts businesses.
Speaker A:I am a lifelong obsessive of martial arts.
Speaker A:Actually started training when I was 10, right.
Speaker A:And then I took a couple of years off.
Speaker A:I did taekwondo like everybody in the world probably does, right?
Speaker A:Going do some jumpy, spinny, kicky things when you're young.
Speaker A:And then I found jiu jitsu when I was 14 and I haven't stopped.
Speaker A:And I'm 45 now, right.
Speaker A:So that was.
Speaker A:That's a while.
Speaker A:And I've always loved business largely because I don't like working for other people.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I love being free and being self employed and having the freedom to travel and do all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:My wife and I have either bought or built.
Speaker A:I think we're up to nine companies now and we've sold a bunch of them over the years.
Speaker A:One of them in particular was a very small and struggling dance school in a Country town in rural New South Wales, right?
Speaker A:In Australia.
Speaker A:You know this obviously, because we're both here in Australia.
Speaker A:But for anyone else, New South Wales is the state where Sydney is and everything that's not Sydney is the bush, right?
Speaker A:So we lived in a.
Speaker A:In a small town called Tamworth, internationally famous for being the country music capital of Australia.
Speaker A:Everyone's mental about country music there.
Speaker A:We bought a ballet school because my wife used to be a professional ballerina in France and always wanted to own a school.
Speaker A:So we bought one there.
Speaker A:When she was.
Speaker A:She found this place, she was on an international tour for her book, which was called how to be a Ballet Dancer, which is fantastic.
Speaker A:And within six months, we had tripled the size of this school and basically tripled the recurring monthly revenue by implementing some very simple but focused marketing and enrollment tactics.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I teach people these kind of things now.
Speaker A:I like to break it down.
Speaker A:We'll talk about your business in a second.
Speaker A:But I break it down to, you know, to kind of make it fun for martial arts business owners.
Speaker A:There's a.
Speaker A:There's an old concept called dojo storming, right.
Speaker A:Which was big back in the 80s where one dojo would go, we're going to go and challenge everyone in this dojo and challenge them to a fight, which is totally pointless.
Speaker A:Let's prove whose style's better, right?
Speaker A:Absolutely nuts.
Speaker A:But the concept is pretty funny.
Speaker A:So I call this dojo storm.
Speaker A:And storm stands for strategy, tactics, operations, revenue and marketing.
Speaker A:You get those five things right in any business, but specifically a martial arts focused business here, and you do really well.
Speaker A:Operations is all about your actual model and your delivery.
Speaker A:How do you give people the thing that they want?
Speaker A:Revenue is sales, right?
Speaker A:You need to actually sell or enroll.
Speaker A:And I say sell or enroll.
Speaker A:Because if you're selling online like you are, then there may be a completely hands off sales process.
Speaker A:If you're running an actual, you know, gym studio, dojo would choose your word, academy, whatever you want to call it, like you also are, right?
Speaker A:Then that involves typically either totally online, totally offline, or a blend of on and offline enrollment.
Speaker A:And there are things that work really well and things that don't work at all.
Speaker A:Dialing those in makes a big difference.
Speaker A:And then marketing is, well, how do we get people interested in that?
Speaker A:Okay, so needs to fit under an overarching strategy.
Speaker A:Where are we actually going?
Speaker A:And then we look at the individual tactics in each of those three areas.
Speaker A:Marketing, sales and delivery.
Speaker A:And we figure out what's going to generate the highest number of Leads enroll the highest number of clients and then deliver to them in a way that makes them super happy.
Speaker A:So they stay.
Speaker A:We're hopefully attracting people who can afford whatever we're offering.
Speaker A:So they pay and then they feel that they become part of a community, so they refer other people to us, which takes the load off the front end marketing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we can kind of dig into any of that that you like in relation to your business.
Speaker A:What I'm really interested in with the art of coaching, you've been going for like, you know, 5ish months of, you know, since April of when you've actually been putting yourself out there.
Speaker A:What's your biggest win been and what's your biggest mistake so far?
Speaker A:And you know, you either win or you learn.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So what did you learn from the big mistake as well?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that I don't necessarily.
Speaker B:I think in the beginning I was trying to find like a content that would go viral or that would be, you know, funny or interesting to people or, you know, controversial.
Speaker B:I tried it all, I tried it all because I was like, okay, I can see, you know, this person posts this thing about, you know, you're a black belt but you don't know anything or, you know, that's very controversial or then, you know, a funny meme style, viral hit video.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker B:And those things work 100%.
Speaker B:We see it time and time again.
Speaker B:That, that works.
Speaker B:But for me, I was then sitting back and going, are these people going to buy my products?
Speaker B:Like, okay, yeah, they might like my page.
Speaker B:They might, you know, think I'm funny.
Speaker B:They might think that I'm really rude or whatever.
Speaker B:And they're like, yeah, that person, I like that person because they've got an opinion.
Speaker B:But are they going to buy anything that I'm actually trying to sell them?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:So for me, I was like, okay, I don't care how many followers I have, I don't care how big my platform is in any way at any point.
Speaker B:It always has to be that I'm providing something that is authentic and that is educational.
Speaker B:So as soon as I switched that and all of a sudden I was like, okay, I'm not gonna try and be that influencer.
Speaker B:I'm not gonna try and be this.
Speaker B:I'm just gonna be exactly who I am and just give, just keep giving, keep giving my content, keep giving information, keep giving free resources.
Speaker B:Not because I don't have anything of value that I could sell, but because people then reflect back, they trust What I'm saying, they believe in me as a person.
Speaker B:They believe in my model of, you know, using games.
Speaker B:And that has worked wonders for me even in the last sort of three, four months, probably since June was when I really started to decide to go down this route.
Speaker B:And it has worked well because I'm just being me.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:Being yourself is ridiculously important.
Speaker A:I find it's one of the keys to success in business.
Speaker A:I was talking to, I do, I do some marketing consulting and one of my clients is a US based tech startup.
Speaker A:They're building a new AI tool.
Speaker A:Absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:Can't talk about it too much right now.
Speaker A:They're at the point where they're trying to figure out exactly who this is a perfect fit for and what their business model should be.
Speaker A:And they're asking my advice yesterday and the advice that I gave them was build the business that you want to run.
Speaker A:And this is something that I see a lot of people do wrong, right?
Speaker A:They, they do the things that they're told will work and end up building themselves a golden prison, right?
Speaker A:You, especially if you do something and it does work, but you don't enjoy it.
Speaker A:Like someone might have a lot of success with video based social media marketing, but they hate talking to camera or you know, the other way around.
Speaker A:They have, they, they write an email newsletter, but it's just a grind for them to sit down and write every week and they'd be better off just talking to the camera for two minutes and posting one or two videos a week, right?
Speaker A:One of the biggest mistakes that I made when I launched the Grappling Map social media account is I, and I didn't know this was a mistake at the time, but I reposted a video that someone had posted of a couple of guys having a fight and it went from my account, it went super viral and I got thousands upon thousands of followers that I then had to remove because they were all irrelevant to my business and my goals, right?
Speaker A:Because when I get a follow, I've got a bit of a process where, you know, I reach out to those people, I introduce myself, I thank them for following.
Speaker A:I ask a couple of questions to see because very often it's martial arts school owners, right?
Speaker A:I ask a few questions to see how their business is going and I'm very kind of low key and friendly about it.
Speaker A:But also with that storm model, one of the tactics that I use is just be conversational and friendly and offer to give value to people.
Speaker A:Then they're going to see that Value and they're going to want to work with me longer term.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Chasing viral views and things like that.
Speaker A:I completely agree.
Speaker A:It is generally for most people it's the wrong approach and the memes and the funny stuff and all those kind of things.
Speaker A:It's okay to kind of share it to your story every now and then, but what people really connect with are other people.
Speaker A:And that's one of the strengths with you, right?
Speaker A:You're easy to talk to, you're great on camera and you've got the experience, the knowledge, the qualifications.
Speaker A:It doesn't matter that you're a blue belt.
Speaker A:Like who cares really?
Speaker A:I would take a blue belt with your qualifications teaching my kids over a black belt who doesn't actually know how to teach kids.
Speaker A:Because the belt doesn't, the, the belt in jiu jitsu doesn't necessarily equate to the belt in your teaching ability.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Or your belt in understanding kids or you're belt in entrepreneurship, which is very, very interesting.
Speaker A:So let's have a think about it like this.
Speaker A:If, if you were to, to start from scratch today and completely relaunch the art of coaching, what would you do differently now?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:If I said you need to get back to the point where you're at now or even double where you're at now by the end of the year and today is day one, what would you do differently compared to what you've done over the last five or six months?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker B:I would put my face out there sooner.
Speaker B:I think I was a little bit worried about what people would think of me as a person.
Speaker B:I was a bit hesitant to share my identity.
Speaker B:And the sooner that I did that, the more that people kind of became relatable with me.
Speaker B:And you know, I was obviously that comes from being self conscious or being scared of being on video or what.
Speaker B:All those different things played a part.
Speaker B:I think if I had have just thrown myself in there in the beginning, I probably would have been able to connect with people a bit faster.
Speaker B:So I think I would do that immediately, but I think also I wouldn't have tried.
Speaker B:So even, even recently, you'll actually go back and see some videos that are with this background because this is my office, this is where I sit and work.
Speaker B:And the videos that I did, they were okay.
Speaker B:You know, I still haven't figured out 100% the vibe that I'm looking at with my, you know, my face reels, but they didn't perform that well.
Speaker B:And then all of a sudden I Went and sat outside and my reels did much better.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, okay.
Speaker B:So, you know, I think rather than trying to create this authority of myself by, you know, sitting in my office and I'm talking and I'm the authority, when I went and sat outside and just was, like, chatting to the camera, it immediately, I think, engaged people better.
Speaker B:So I would probably drop the meaning of trying to be an authority in anything.
Speaker B:Put my face out there a lot more.
Speaker B:And I would double down on posting.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:This is something that I actually am trying to do now.
Speaker B:So when we first started, I would put a post up maybe three times a week.
Speaker B:I would never post on a Sunday or the weekend because I'd be like, no, that's my time.
Speaker B:I don't work on the weekends.
Speaker B:And my partner was like, yes, you do.
Speaker B:Yes, you do.
Speaker B:And all of a sudden, I was posting every day.
Speaker B:And now that I post every single day, my growth is much faster.
Speaker B:So I would immediately post every single day.
Speaker B:It seems like a lot of work, and it is.
Speaker B:You know, I would always laugh.
Speaker B:I do laugh, because I would see, like, influencers who would be like, my life is so hard because I have to put on my makeup.
Speaker B:And then I do my videos, and it's a lot of work.
Speaker B:And I'd be looking at them.
Speaker B:I'm like, on my phone, like, yeah, okay, love, whatever you got to tell yourself.
Speaker B:But actually, it is so much work.
Speaker B:It's so much work that you don't see because all you see is the stuff on the camera.
Speaker B:And so I think that if you can take the time, double down, post every single day, that makes a huge difference.
Speaker B:And so for me, now I'm looking at, can I post twice a day?
Speaker B:So I would like to be sharing, like, an educational carousel content and a reel in the same day.
Speaker B:And I don't know how that's going to go.
Speaker B:You know, you hear about people who say that it works really well.
Speaker B:I don't know yet.
Speaker B:So I'll get back to you in a few months and see if I even just make myself more stressed or if it actually works for me.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:So basically doubling down on the things that worked and getting over that inner resistance to actually stepping up and taking action.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:And I also really like that idea of taking action despite not knowing if it's going to work right.
Speaker A:I'm going to post twice a day.
Speaker A:I'm going to do a carousel.
Speaker A:I'm going to do a reel.
Speaker A:I don't know if it's going to work.
Speaker A:That's the exact right attitude to go into anything with, because what do we know, you know, about what's going to work before we actually do something?
Speaker A:Action is the ultimate, almost decision making tool.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:If you're ever unsure about something, just take some action.
Speaker A:Then you get an answer, you get some feedback that you can do something with, which I think is very, very important.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:There's a lot of noise out there about what works specifically on social media.
Speaker A:And just like training jiu jitsu, what actually works is showing up consistently and, you know, putting the reps in, getting the rounds in.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I can't remember if it was Hormozy or Gary Vaynerchuk or might have been someone else, but basically said like, if all you do is outlast 95% of your competitors because you are consistent and you show up and you just don't give up, you're going to win anyway.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And that's true in pretty much any area you look at.
Speaker A:The old throwaway line about a black belt is just a white belt that, you know, never stop training.
Speaker A:There's, there's some real truth to that.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Because anyone who stops showing up to training, they're never actually going to get there.
Speaker A:With that in mind, this is, this is kind of a little bit fun as a question.
Speaker A:So you're blue belt in BJJ in terms of business.
Speaker A:If that had the same kind of belt ranking system, what belt would you be right now?
Speaker B:100% a white belt.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:It's so funny because my partner, he, like I said before, he is literally the person that will sit down and he, I think he has scanned every single YouTube video possible on business and he reads books all day, every day trying to understand these things.
Speaker B:And I'd say he's a blue belt.
Speaker B:No, I'll give him a purple so that he doesn't get too mad.
Speaker B:If he watches this, he's a purple.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:When then he'll be like, so what do you think about this?
Speaker B:And I'll give him my opinion.
Speaker B:And he's like, that's terrible.
Speaker B:Okay, there you go.
Speaker B:I don't know what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:I just know kids.
Speaker B:And so I think definitely I am still a white belt with this.
Speaker B:And that's the beauty of it though, because if I was perfect at everything or if I was great at everything, well, wouldn't life be fantastic?
Speaker B:But I wouldn't have a challenge.
Speaker B:And even four months ago, well, even when we opened our Gym I put into ChatGPT how to use a lawyer because I didn't know how to even contact the right lawyer to sign the papers.
Speaker B:So you have to start as a white belt somewhere and I think that you just, you keep going with it and eventually hopefully one day I'll get my blue belt.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:I've got no doubt if you, if you think where you're going with this, right?
Speaker A:What's in, in a perfect world, this turns into whatever you want it to be.
Speaker A:What's the long term vision for the art of coaching?
Speaker B:I would like to see a standardized curriculum for kids.
Speaker B:Now I don't mean you must attend these classes and you must learn how to do this.
Speaker B:I mean I would like to see a, should I correct myself here?
Speaker B:A standardized coaching curriculum.
Speaker B:I would like to see coaches be able to go to like a workshop the same way that IBJJF has like a black belt, I think professor thing that they make people pay and sign up to do or whatever they do if you want to be IBJJF registered.
Speaker B:But I think that there should be something similar where it's like okay, you wanna coach kids or you wanna.
Speaker B:Now you need to understand actually how kids think or even how to communicate, how to understand their needs, how to recognize cues.
Speaker B:Neurodivergence is a massive one.
Speaker B:Like I would just like people to understand that just because a child is not looking directly at you while you are showing something, it doesn't mean they're not listening.
Speaker B:You know, there's so many different things that I think if I could create the art of coaching to be is understanding exactly how kids learn and creating it as a standardized thing in gyms.
Speaker A:That sounds spectacular.
Speaker A:I think that's the kind of thing that is really needed in general.
Speaker A:And it reminds me of when I got my black belt in Japanese Jiu jitsu, right.
Speaker A:There was a teaching component to that grading, but it wasn't simply show up and teach a class and see how you go.
Speaker A:There was very systematic step by step instruction over the course of about a year on, you know, how to actually design a class that's going to achieve the goals that you have, how to figure out what those goals are for that individual class, why certain things are happening at different times in the class.
Speaker A:My, my personal instructor in Japanese Jiu jitsu, his name's Tyler Duffield, amazing guy and he's a bit of a mad scientist when it comes to figuring these things out and excellent at teaching.
Speaker A:And I completely agree.
Speaker A:There's nothing like this for coaches of kids, really, in any martial art, from what I've seen and I've looked around because as I said, I started putting my own kind of curriculum and program together on this in the past as well that I might release at some point in the future.
Speaker A:And I think if this were to exist, it's the kind of thing that could actually, on its own, in its own right, be a huge business, as well as serving a very real need that exists out there in the marketplace.
Speaker A:So the fact that you're thinking down these lines, I would say absolutely pursue that.
Speaker A:It's a really, really great idea.
Speaker A:And if you can crack it and get that kind of mass adoption into schools, of which there are so many, right?
Speaker A:We've got, as of right now, we've got about 6,000 listed on the grappling map, which is spectacular all over the world.
Speaker A:And there's some countries where we don't even have any listings yet because we're kind of going country by country, right?
Speaker A:So lots in the U.S. most, if not all in Australia, I'd say by now, and a lot in Europe because that's where, you know, where my wife's from.
Speaker A:So we've kind of focused in those areas.
Speaker A:And it's just growing and growing all the time.
Speaker A:It's growing on the grappling map and it's growing as an industry.
Speaker A:It's like new schools pop up every day, right?
Speaker A:And I get new, new people reaching out to me on Instagram and Facebook all the time, asking for advice on growing their martial arts schools or their businesses.
Speaker A:One of the reasons that I wanted to do this podcast and have people like you on Ellie, is that I love the idea that it's possible to do awesome things in the martial, you know, called the martial arts industry without just opening a school.
Speaker A:Because a lot of people think I've got these skills, right?
Speaker A:I'm a black belt and I was an assistant coach at my last school.
Speaker A:I want to get out of my day job.
Speaker A:What am I going to do?
Speaker A:The obvious answer is I'm going to open a gym, right?
Speaker A:And it's not the only way, right?
Speaker A:You've combined, and this is often the way that the best ideas come, come about.
Speaker A:You've combined jiu jitsu with previous knowledge and passion and put those two things together and then see, well, what comes out of that.
Speaker A:And almost everyone, I say almost some people just don't have anything else, right?
Speaker A:But almost everyone has something that they could probably combine or dig into to find that thing underneath the Surface that they could do in our industry without just needing to open a school, which is very, very awesome.
Speaker A:What would you say?
Speaker A:This is kind of a philosophical question, I suppose.
Speaker A:What would you say is, like, the biggest ways that your jiu Jitsu training helps with your art of coaching business outside of, you know, we're putting these games together to teach skills.
Speaker A:Like, how does Jiu Jitsu help you personally in running your business?
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:Jiu Jitsu, first of all, did change my life.
Speaker B:Obviously, we've seen that.
Speaker B:I went to a class, and now I have this partner of five years, and the whole thing just kind of, like, evolved from my one class.
Speaker B:But, you know, I spoke about why I got into it in the first place, which was, you know, a little bit of defense, a bit more confidence, and that is the backbone of what Jiu jitsu gives me on a daily basis, because it pushes me to be outside of my comfort zone in so many ways.
Speaker B:And it reminds me that, you know, I can do hard things.
Speaker B:I can do hard things.
Speaker B:And funnily enough, classic blue belt move.
Speaker B:I stopped training for a while.
Speaker B:I owned the gym, and I probably didn't train for six months.
Speaker B:I would jump on the mats maybe once a week, do a little bit here and there, classic blue belt blues.
Speaker B:But then you're in the spotlight where you own the gym, and that makes it very uncomfortable.
Speaker B:And so when I finally stepped back onto the mats, ready to train properly, I realized that my mindset wasn't in the right place before, because my mindset was like, okay, you own the gym.
Speaker B:You have to be really good.
Speaker B:You have to be able to do this.
Speaker B:Like, you got to be able to win.
Speaker B:And I was never going to be able to do that.
Speaker B:I don't know why I put myself there, because that was never going to work.
Speaker B:And so now it's like, okay.
Speaker B:The same thing with the art of coaching is like, when I started it, I was like, oh, my God, like, maybe that person will do better than me, or maybe that person knows more than me.
Speaker B:And, you know, I have to be the best, and I have to be able to show that I'm the.
Speaker B:I'm the person that everyone wants to come to.
Speaker B:And that probably isn't actually reflected in my content, but that was my mind.
Speaker B:And then I realized that's the same thing with my Jiu Jitsu is like, okay, why are you doing that to yourself?
Speaker B:And so then when I came back to training, it was for a different reason.
Speaker B:And now it's, I like to be able to challenge myself to do hard things.
Speaker B:I lack the confidence that it makes me feel about myself as a person.
Speaker B:I love the way that Jiu jitsu is almost like a form of meditation, because you can only focus on the one thing at a time.
Speaker B:And so when I take those values and those things that I've learned in my skills in jiu jitsu, which I say skills because it's not.
Speaker B:I still fall off my feet every two minutes, but the actual skill of being a person that is learning life skills on the mats, it is directly impacting how I have created the art of coaching, because I am willing to put myself out there.
Speaker B:I'm willing to be confident with, you know, what I say and what I stand for and my values, and I'm not claiming to be perfect at everything.
Speaker B:So I think every day when I step on the mats is an opportunity for me to learn how to be the person that I want to show up for in my business.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:There's so many lessons, right?
Speaker A:And the more you train, the more obvious it becomes that jiu jitsu and martial arts in general, if you allow it to, can absolutely change your life.
Speaker A:And it infiltrates every other part of your life, and it becomes almost like an operating system in the back of your mind.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The ability to stay calm under pressure, the confidence, the.
Speaker A:All the other things that you just mentioned really permeate into the rest of your life the longer you spend training.
Speaker A:It's absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:A fun question that I like to ask, and this is a weird one.
Speaker A:If you could roll with absolutely anyone, right, Alive or dead, who would you absolutely love to go a few rounds with?
Speaker B:Hickson.
Speaker B:Gracie.
Speaker B:Straight up.
Speaker A:Straight up.
Speaker A:Hickson.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And this is new for me.
Speaker B:Okay, so fast.
Speaker B:Let's go back.
Speaker B:Go back.
Speaker B:Go back to when I started Jiu jitsu.
Speaker B:And you heard, you know, the first name you kind of hear is Gracie.
Speaker B:And then all of a sudden you're like, okay, you start to get some more words around Gracie, and it starts to get a bit negative because you're like, ooh, it's a bit culty.
Speaker B:It's a bit this and that, and there's a few gyms we all know.
Speaker B:And so then I would be like, oh, I don't know about this.
Speaker B:And I recently spoke to a few different students of Hickson himself, and, man, what cool people.
Speaker B:I think you're even talking to Chris shortly.
Speaker B:I have all the time in the world for Chris Burns.
Speaker B:I think that he's hilarious, but also, what he's doing is really cool.
Speaker B:James Driscoll is really cool.
Speaker B:These people who are directly impacted by Rickson himself and his story and, you know, the loss of his son, the way that he evolved from this, you know, fighter guy in Rio and, you know, the whole Gracie thing, and then has become this person that really represents Jiu jitsu as a holistic approach to life.
Speaker B:And I think that what he brings and what he's trying to teach is getting a little bit lost now.
Speaker B:I haven't looked that much into it, but if I could have one role with one person, I just know that he would be the most valuable person to be able to train with.
Speaker B:And I really, really hope one day I can do that.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, it's totally possible.
Speaker A:He comes to Australia pretty often, does a lot of seminars, and, you know, you got some direct connections with people who've trained personally underneath him.
Speaker A:So that's, that's the awesome thing about this industry is that everyone's accessible, right?
Speaker A:Like it's.
Speaker A:And that's something you would talk about lessons that jiu jitsu has taught you in life and business.
Speaker A:If I were to throw one out there as well, it would be, you know, just having that confidence to go for what you want, right?
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And you can relate that to a role.
Speaker A:You know, try the move, try the, try.
Speaker A:Every coach will probably kill me if I say this, but try that weird shit you see on YouTube and Instagram, right?
Speaker A:Give it a shot.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:If you only ever work within the confines of what you're being taught, then you're not actually allowing yourself to see other outside possibilities.
Speaker A:And one of the things that I found with putting the Grappling Map together and the Grappling Map podcast, here is the idea behind this podcast is to kind of go behind the belts, right?
Speaker A:Belts are awesome, but like Mr. Miyagi says, belts are good for holding up your pants.
Speaker A:At the end of the day, what we want to look at is apart from opening in the gym, what else can we do?
Speaker A:And what are like the breakthroughs and the battles and things that we've gone through as people and entrepreneurs in building what are hopefully life changing industry shaping businesses.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:So one of the things that I found is that, is that people are way more accessible than I thought they were.
Speaker A:You can pick any big name in the industry, and I've probably had a conversation with them already about coming on the podcast.
Speaker A:I've got a list of well over three or four hundred people that we've got lined up and at first I was thinking, I'll just do this once a week.
Speaker A:And now I'm like, should I go full time on the podcast?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Who knows?
Speaker A:We'll see where it goes.
Speaker A:Pretty exciting, though.
Speaker A:So to kind of bring this to a close, something that I think would be really interesting is if.
Speaker A:If everyone who was trying to build a business in the martial arts industry were listening to you right now, what's one thing that you'd want them to hear or take away from this conversation?
Speaker B:I think you trying to figure out the way to word this the best way.
Speaker B:If you have an idea, just do it.
Speaker B:And I know that that sounds like not even advice.
Speaker B:It's just like, oh, just do it.
Speaker B:But honestly, you might be sitting at home and you're like, I have this great idea for a product.
Speaker B:I have this, you know, I have this really great idea for another jiu jitsu clothing brand, or I have this.
Speaker B:This idea for a supplement or whatever it is that you're thinking.
Speaker B:And you're probably sitting there, because I know I did it too, where you sit there and you're like, oh, but there's already so many.
Speaker B:Oh, there's already supplement brands, or there's already, you know, clothing brands.
Speaker B:There's already these things, and it doesn't matter.
Speaker B:It actually doesn't matter because once you start to put your own direction and your own passion into the thing, it's never going to be able to be replicated by someone else.
Speaker B:So I'm never scared that somebody else is going to come along and do what I do, because they can't be me.
Speaker B:And so, yes, I found a random little niche, and I.
Speaker B:And I love that.
Speaker B:But I was the person sitting at home going, okay, I own this gym, but there has to be something else that I can do here.
Speaker B:Because, you know, I think at one point I even thought of, like, a backpack with a towel thing, and I made prototypes and stuff, and it actually was not a very good idea at all.
Speaker B:But you just have to put something out there and start it and don't doubt yourself, even if you're just like, I want to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think the clothing thing is usually one of the ones that's, like, easiest to get into, but, like, just go for it.
Speaker B:It doesn't matter.
Speaker B:Put yourself out there.
Speaker B:Use the same thing like you were saying before, Nick, like, the same thing that you feel when you're on the mats and you're trying something different.
Speaker B:Put that into your life as well.
Speaker B:Take what you've learned on the mats and use it to just go for it and put yourself out there and.
Speaker B:But when I say put yourself out there and you do it, put yourself out there wholeheartedly.
Speaker B:Don't do what I did and just do like once a week posting or three times a week or whatever.
Speaker B:Like, if you're gonna do it, give yourself the opportunity to go all in.
Speaker B:Because when you truly believe in your own success and you truly believe in what you're going to achieve, you will do it.
Speaker B:Because there is not a doubt in my mind that I will achieve what I want to do because otherwise I'm going to be broke and not have.
Speaker B:Not have anything to say for myself in 10 years.
Speaker B:But in all seriousness, go for it.
Speaker A:That's amazing advice.
Speaker A:Just go for it.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And it doesn't get any simpler than that.
Speaker A:I couldn't possibly agree more.
Speaker A:One of the biggest limitations that people put on themselves is the belief in limitations.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And that shows up in an unbelievable number of ways.
Speaker A:I've got this idea for a custom rash guard, but there's so many people selling it.
Speaker A:So what?
Speaker A:It doesn't matter.
Speaker A:It just doesn't matter.
Speaker A:There are 8 billion people on Earth and there's an incredible number of people who train jiu jitsu and martial arts in general.
Speaker A:It's one of the most popular arts sports on Earth, and something that we're always looking for in business is a obsessively passionate niche.
Speaker A:And if jiu jitsu is not an obsessively passionate niche, I don't know what is.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because once you get into it, it becomes your entire life.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you know that that's the case when you.
Speaker A:You put the letters BJJ after your name on Instagram.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I haven't reached that point yet, but who knows, we'll probably get there.
Speaker A:So I completely agree.
Speaker A:Just go for doesn't matter if there's a lot of competition.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Your competitors can become your collaborators in an instant if you approach them the right way.
Speaker A:It's all about having the mindset that we're putting something out there of value and we're trying to add value to the industry as a whole.
Speaker A:Even when I started the Grappling Map and I looked into it, there are hundreds of martial arts school directories now.
Speaker A:Mine's a little different in the way that I go about things.
Speaker A:But the overall goal isn't to list schools.
Speaker A:It's to connect the global grappling community.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I want a place where schools can promote themselves so students can come in.
Speaker A:I want sponsors to be able to put this in advertisers to put their content in front of a passionate niche market so they don't have to hunt and waste thousands of dollars on, you know, advertising that may or may not work.
Speaker A:And I want a place for people who aren't running businesses to come and be able to, you know, interact, find what they need, know that they're, they're not getting the wrong kind of things marketed to them because it's all vetted and all that kind of stuff and have forums and the ability to have conversations and discussions and, and just connect that entire community.
Speaker A:So you got to have a big vision like that and then like you've said, Ellie, just go for it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So let's talk a little bit about where people can find you.
Speaker A:Okay, so run me through if someone wants to get in contact with you or if they're interested in what you have and they want to get their hands on it.
Speaker B:Fantastic.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So you can find me at theart of Coaching Instagram.
Speaker B:I share daily tips and tricks for coaches, also families.
Speaker B:And if you want to get in contact, you can send me a message there.
Speaker B:I really try hard to interact with everyone that I possibly can.
Speaker B:So if you've ever got a question, just send me a message.
Speaker B:Look at my YouTube channel, which is the Art of Coaching as well.
Speaker B:I post twice a week.
Speaker B:Usually it's like an interview style kind of thing and another one more just about like a content, educational content kind of style stuff that's really taking off, which I'm really, really proud of as well.
Speaker B:And then if you would like to look at what I offer in terms of business, you can also check out my Stan store which is the Art of Coaching.
Speaker B:It's sort of linked down below here.
Speaker B:Through that I have game based coaching for kids, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:It's my first little tiny product that I've created.
Speaker B:It's essentially 10 games all built around teaching Brazilian Jiu Jitsu skills, skills through storytelling.
Speaker B:So it's a lot of fairy tales, castles, dragons, things like that.
Speaker B:And I'm getting really positive feedback from this and the way that it's really engaging kids to have fun on the mats and I think that's the biggest thing they need to have fun.
Speaker B:I also offer one on one personalized coaching.
Speaker B:So essentially I come and if you're local, if you're not, I observe your classes via sort of a recording.
Speaker B:We go through, we chat about things and that really gives you like a supportive environment to be able to see what you might be Missing in your kids programs.
Speaker B:And you can all find that on my Stan store.
Speaker A:That's absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:I won't take too much time with my links here.
Speaker A:You can find me everywhere.
Speaker A:Just basically type in grappling map and you find it.
Speaker A:It's rappling map on the places where you need to put an.
Speaker A:It's just grappling map everywhere else.
Speaker A:And you know, if you're looking for the more professional version, you can just search my name, Nick County.
Speaker A:You'll Find me on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:You can also check out my personal profile on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:Sorry, on Instagram as well, which is Nick County.
Speaker A:Love to connect with absolutely anyone and everyone doing anything to do with grappling based martial arts businesses.
Speaker A:Very exciting.
Speaker A:So, Ellie, thanks for your time.
Speaker A:Thanks for going deep, sharing your philosophy, being a bit vulnerable about your journey.
Speaker A:Really appreciate it.
Speaker A:Anything that you'd like to wrap up with here?
Speaker A:Any final wisdom that you'd like to drop on the table for everyone?
Speaker B:Oh, I don't know if I have any final wisdom, but I just want to say thank you so much for having me.
Speaker B:I'm usually the opposite side of this where I'm sort of interviewing someone else and asking them questions.
Speaker B:And so you really made me sweat and made me think about what I was trying to say in the best way possible.
Speaker B:Because I think that it actually helps me understand myself a bit better when I have opportunities like this as well.
Speaker B:And I love what you're doing.
Speaker B:I love the idea of the grappling map.
Speaker B:I actually haven't even got my gym on there, but now I'm literally about to put my gym on there.
Speaker B:I think that what you're trying to do to connect the martial arts communities is beautiful.
Speaker B:Your podcast is going to be a success.
Speaker B:I just know it.
Speaker B:And thank you so much for having me.
Speaker B:I really appreciate your time.
Speaker A:My absolute pleasure.
Speaker A:Thanks for your time and, and I'm sure we'll get you back on, you know, in a couple of months, hear about the journey, how the two times a day posting's gone, anything else that you've done and you know, the, the other things that you talked about here.
Speaker A:I'd love to chat with you about those, probably offline as well and see if we can't help you, you know, get that coaching curriculum and all that kind of stuff out there and absolutely killing it because the industry absolutely needs it.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So that was Ellie Beckman.
Speaker A:Thanks very much for being here.
Speaker A:I'm Nick county.
Speaker A:That is the Grappling Map podcast.
